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solarcirclegirl
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| Location: | Conway, Arkansas USA |
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 01:05 pm |
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I have started posting mine on the wall in the hallway of our apartment. My boyfriend did this with job rejection letters when he was finishing up his last year of ph.d work at college, and by the time he got done, he covered the door to his office as well as all the space above and on either side of it.
So far I only have two actual printed ones up there.
what do you guys do with yours?
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Edd
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 01:20 pm |
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Throw them away as quickly as I can and pretend they never happened.
~Edd
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solarcirclegirl
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 01:45 pm |
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Really?
Right now, i kind of see them as proof that i am getting my work out there. I've actually gotten eight responses, seven rejections and one request for a full script.
i've just gotten some wierd rejections. like, what do you do with the one where they just send your synopsis back in the SASE with no letter and no notes on the synopsis? I am going to assume that's a rejection, but i don't know what theatre it even came from! crazy eh?
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Moon
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 02:35 pm |
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Oh, I love this question! You are brave to post them.
I make my husband open the letter, just to confirm that it really is a rejection. Then I hide it until the sting goes away and I am ready to write. Then I read it. When I'm in a better mood, I can use a rejection the way Popeye uses spinach--to build muscle.
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Shanahan
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 02:39 pm |
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Just ignore them. What's the point of dwelling on them? Move on.
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in media res
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:11 pm |
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toss 'em.
The one that sticks out the most was from about a year ago from a top/major regional theatre. My agent forwarded me the letter. I may have mentioned this before somewhere:
"Though we love the play, we do not have within our resident company, nor do we have access to, the quality of actor required to perform this play."
It is a two-hander for a couple of older actors. And yes, they are starring roles, but do not need stars...just high quality actors. Fortunately the play is making its way through informal channels of personal referral, to producers and directors, even to two Tony Award winning producers one who has graciously passed on it. One thing I have learned in this business is the higher up you go, the nicer everyone is. Waiting to hear on the other which will take time.
As a proviso, I will say I was doing a show with a young actor, and I was thinking about attending a production of a play I love at this theatre. it would have involved a good drive, but the play is rarely done. The actor said he had already seen the production, but to spare the drive. The actors weren't that good. He said, "It would be a great play for you, though, in a few years." (edd, if you read this, it was the last movie/play you saw and the first movie-play I saw after our "episodes.") So, maybe the Artistic Director was just being realistic. To me, however, it showed a lack of imagination.
Most rejection letters, when specifically written, have been very good, thorough and then request more. Or I have gotten form letters that say they liked the play, but can not use it at this time or are keeping it on file, and request to send them more. But a form rejection letter is clear, functional and concise. They are necessary given the volume, I suppose. But no one likes them,
Anyone else have memorable ones that are ironically confusing like the one I mention above?
best,
in media resLast edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:13 pm by in media res
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CaseyC
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 03:29 pm |
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I wouldn't know. Never got one. ;)
...hahahah. I think the obvious answer is Recycle. Print your script on the other side of the letter. Green earth right?
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kris
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 05:17 pm |
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Hi, solarcirclegirl,
I understand why you keep rejection letters as "proof." I did the same thing back in the day when I was trying to write short stories. I especially loved the rejection notes (not even on full-sized paper) from The New Yorker with the logo of the snob with the monocle -- who actually has a name, Eustace Tilly. How cool I thought it was to have even a rejection note from The New Yorker, or the Atlantic Monthly, or some of the "little" literary magazines. My own Red Badges of Courage.
Maybe those rejection letters served a purpose. I don't know. I did end up being published hundreds of times, but not my short stories, and not in elite magazines. The day I cleared out all that junk and threw away those rejection letters was a day of freedom. Now I see rejection letters as a big fat NO. I don't care how it's sugar-coated or couched or hidden, a NO is negative, and I don't need negativity in my life. Acceptances are a wonderful YES! and that is what I want to focus on. If a rejection is by email, I zap it into the ether. If hard copy, it goes into the trash. Either way, it's history. Immediately.
One thing I find worse than a rejection letter is the rejection by default. You never are notified that your work wasn't selected -- you simply learn one day (by visiting a website or whatever) that others were and yours isn't among them. I know the theaters' line that "we have so many submissions that we can't possibly notify everyone" blah, blah, blah, but it seems to me that if a playwright takes the time -- and, often, considerable expense if the theater wants several hard copies -- to submit, the theater should make the time to inform. Another of my pet peeves! I have a menagerie.
Regards,
Kris
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katoagogo
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:46 pm |
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Solar:
The first thing I do is I see if the letter is signed. A letter signed with ink means that my work got serious consideration from that theater company. If this is the case, then I send a thank-you note to person who signed the letter for taking time to consider my work. These are busy people and their time is worth noting.
Then I take the letter and I file it in a folder dedicated to letters regarding that particular play (it's a subdivision of the folder for that play).
These letters become important reference points, especially if a reader liked my work but it wasn't right for the theater. People move on to other theaters all the time. When they do, I try to keep track and I send to that person at the new theater. See?
I wish I could take credit for this system, but it's one that Paula Vogel recommends, and I follow her advice.
It doesn't take long before people who liked your work start remembering your name. It's a good business practice.
--Kato
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Edd
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 10:53 pm |
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Kato,
Excellent advice!
~Edd
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in media res
Member
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Posted: Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 11:28 pm |
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kato is right and gives good advice, and I have my own filing system of names and references to keep track. But I toss the actual letters as I consider them bad omens. Just as I have tossed info from some past bad productions I may have been unlucky to have been in as an actor. Why keep spoiled meat?
And she is right, people do move around. A lot. Just as soon as you have made an inroad at a theatre, they can be gone. That is why the person is more important than the theatre they are at.
it is much easier now with the internet. When you used to call up a theatre to ask where they may have gone, they often wouldn't tell you. I think specifically because of the internet, they are more friendly now.
in media resLast edited on Sun Dec 2nd, 2007 11:30 pm by in media res
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katoagogo
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Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 04:00 am |
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IMR:
I keep the letters on file because in my view they are part of the history of the play.
--Kato
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nic
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Posted: Mon Dec 3rd, 2007 04:33 am |
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Yes! I like Kato's advice. I too write to thank anyone who has obviously taken the time to read the submission and comment on it.
And I keep all the rejections. My best was from a theatre company which used my SAE to send script and rejection back but they'd held the thing for so long that the price of postage had gone up and I had to pay extra for the thing. Mind you in this case the play had already been produced by another company and won a major award.
The best Nic
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Proboscisbunny
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 03:26 am |
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Here's one I received today...I'll leave off the theatre name to protect the guilty.
I apologize for being so late in getting back to all of you, but I did want to let you know that we have made our selections for the XXX for the next 12 months, and unfortunately you were not among those selected for membership at this time.
I want to make it very clear that this was a difficult decision. We had 22 applicants for 8 slots—and most were incredibly good candidates. It was really gratifying (and somewhat surprising) that we had so many interesting and qualified women apply. I struggled over the final selection for 2 days—and have to admit that I went back and forth a few times. In the end, we actually invited 9 playwrights to join the XXX.
But I want to explain the criteria that led to the final selection, so you can better understand the final composition of the group.
First and foremost, we looked at the quality of the samples. This was the most difficult aspect, because we have never before had such consistently good writers apply to any of our programs! So within that context, we also wanted to make sure that we had a truly diverse membership—not just ethnically diverse, but also in terms of age, background, writing style and focus.
And we also looked at applicants’ other work, with a view toward gathering a membership that had experiences and affiliations that could benefit the XXX itself.
I think we have been very successful in putting together a group of women with whom it will be exciting to work over the coming year.
For those who were not selected, we do want to thank you for your interest and for taking the time to apply. We also want to encourage you all to keep us posted on your work, and let us know when there are readings or other opportunities to see what you’re doing. And, of course, please consider applying again next year.
So, yeah...I was bummed out by this, and then infuriated. I actualy went to see one of their shows (it was cancelled for technical reasons) so that visit spilled the beans on my 35 year old whiteness. But then they judged me on my background? I'm guessing they mean my socio-economic background... Where are they getting this information? Are they guessing from my 35 year old whiteness that I grew up in the suburbs and not in a project or a trailer or a foster home. They no nothing about my background...unless they're getting their "information" from my play, in which case I'm a single mother who lives on a farm with a super-allegic child and a bunch of chickens.
I'm ticked...I may be over-reacting...but I'm pretty sure I spent my youth pissed off about stereotypes, I thought they'd be gone by now...can't we hurry up and judge people on their WRITING...
Am I out of my mind?...well, yes, I'm out of my mind...but does anyone agree or even understand my pantiesinabunchedness?
Vanessa
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bkahn
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 04:26 am |
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"And we also looked at applicants’ other work, with a view toward gathering a membership that had experiences and affiliations that could benefit the XXX itself."
This seems to me, although put in almost like an afterthought, to be the key to their final choices. What do they mean by affiliations? Who one knows or has worked with in the past? Perhaps name directors or actors?
The whole thing is disingenuous (sp) at best. Do they have an application form that has to be included with submissions? If not, they ought to--one that includes questions related to age range, gender, ethnicity, and then perhaps a question asking for the names of 2 or 3 prominent industry people one has worked with. However, if they are not-for-profit, asking for some of that info might be illegal.
In short, they ought to be up front with their criteria instead of revealing it after paywrights go to all the trouble to submit their work.
I once got a reply from a women's theater company telling me my work was not "appropriate." I actually called them and asked the literary manager what they deemed inappropriate--my play had a central female character, was written by a woman... I told her that if they had used any other word, including that they thought it was crap, I would not have called. Well, she hemmed and hawed and finally said my play didn't, well, uh, ehhhh, how can I describe it?, push the envelope. I asked what that means and she said, you know, push the envelope. I finally let her off the hook, thanked her for actually coming to the phone and talking to me about it. (The above was based on a synopsis and 20 pages that THEY had solicited from me.)
My advice is to indulge your anger for no more than 24 hours and then focus on future possibilities.
Barbara
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Proboscisbunny
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 02:19 pm |
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The whole thing is disingenuous (sp) at best.
Yup, you've hit the nail on the head!
It's a poorly written letter. "We enjoyed your writing but unfortunately could only choose 8 of the 22 applicants." would have sufficed...
Onward and upward...
Vanessa
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in media res
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 02:31 pm |
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I agree with everything Barb has written, just take it up a notch! So glad she called that theatre who rejected her.
And are they non-profit? Of course they are non-profit. And non-profits first look after their funding, rather than the quality of work. (Not that by sheer trial and error of numbers they have not found quality work.) They sometimes have perameters in their funding they must meet. No different from any other bureaucracy. Not that I find bureaucracy horrible. It is just that one must always remember the first rule of bureaucracy: to perpetuate the bureaucracy.
I read a lot of comics everyday. Ziggy is always one of my favorites and here is his timely comic today regarding what I have just written:
http://www.gocomics.com/ziggy/
Correct me Probo is I am wrong that it is non-profit.
Anyway, if they had any of that on their submission forms, I would never have submitted.
And if only 22 people submitted, could they not have written you a personal letter proving they had read and considered your play, rather than a form letter? Bureaucratic thinking has even spread to that level!?
On to the next one. Hope it didn't cost you a submission fee.
best,
in media resLast edited on Thu Mar 6th, 2008 02:34 pm by in media res
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Proboscisbunny
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Posted: Thu Mar 6th, 2008 02:40 pm |
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Yes, they are a non-profit.
Interestingly, a day or two before the decision was made they e-mailed and asked where I lived. I told them where I was in CT, 45 minutes away by train (no longer than a subway ride from Queens to Manhattan)...maybe I shouldn't have said anything.
I didn't pay a submission fee...I did spend the train fare to see the show that was cancelled...ah, well... I won't be submitting to them again.
Vanessa
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Sam Stone
Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 07:48 am |
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Do you ever wonder how often a play written by someone that just happens to be a friend of the A.D. gets chosen?
They say that cronyism and nepotism drive the industry but I still believe sometimes talent wins out.
Keep submitting... there's no better option. I've stopped saving my rejection letters, they take up too much space.
Sam
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Edd
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 02:22 pm |
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There is a great deal of truth in what you say, Sam. 'Though I tend to look at it in a more positive light. As we get our plays produced we build relationships with producers and directors. They know us from having worked with us and, if it was a good working relationship, they are inclined to work with us again. I like to think that talent wins out, but it certainly helps to build good relationships with Theatre professionals. NEVER underestimate the importance of networking, nurturing good relationships with past and potential producers and directors and NEVER carry an open flame when crossing a bridge.
~Edd
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katoagogo
Member
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Posted: Fri Mar 7th, 2008 04:43 pm |
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Edd-- I have defied the odds -- and a large majority of the productions and awards that I receive are thru blind submissions.
've even been awarded fellowships and workshops that I was told were impossible to get into with someone knowing you. I got in blind anyway -- and now those folks know me.
It is possible.
--Kato
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